(Update: After receiving a lot of feedback on this article, I wrote a follow-up article here.)
Oh Sudbury. From the city that placed its memorial to battered women in a cemetary (I kid you not) comes the latest major gaffe by its police force: a gang awareness campaign that misses the mark, big time. The province allocated 480,000$ to fight street gangs and educate young people about gangs and to prevent them from being lured by their appeal. Apparently, according to the Sudbury police, there’s an increasing move from gangs from southern ontario into rural areas like Sudbury and street gangs are becoming a problem.
So I did a bit of research and couldn’t find much information about which street gangs were targetting Sudbury, what their demographics were (Caucasian, Black, Hispanic, Aboriginal; Young or Old?) and whether or not they were just driving by or actually setting up home bases in Sudbury and actively recruiting from the young population there. Are these gangs bringing guns to the area? Who knows, no one’s actually giving us any information to work with. However, I did find this television interview about this campaign:
http://www.sudbury24.ca/media/2639/No_Guns,_No_Gangs/
The past Sudbury chief of police Ian Davidson said, “We’ve arrested nearly 60 people who are directly related to gang activity out of the GTA, 21 of which are actual gang members.” He went on to say that they need to do something about this gang activity and that it’s becoming a concern. Minister Rick Bartolucci (Community Safety and Corrections) continued on with: “[your viewers] can walk the streets of Sudbury free from the scourge of guns and gangs.” The “scourge” of guns and gangs? WTF? Where?
But wait, according to this article about Project Northbound (an anti-gang sweep), the current police chief says that:
“We’re confident to state that 33 of the people arrested were known gang members or associates for the (Greater Toronto) or Ottawa areas,” said Elsner.
“At present, there is no indication of any local gangs.”
(Police would not reveal the name of the gangs. However, last March when $480,000 from the Provincial Anti-violence Intervention Strategy was announced for Sudbury, then-police chief Ian Davidson named three gangs whose members were active in the city: the Bloods, Cripz and Mara Salvatrucha 13 (MS-13).)
Right. Are those gangs actually operating in Sudbury or did the chief at the time happen to find a wikipedia article on “gangs” and pick three randoms from less than 2% of Sudbury’s demographics in order to get some funding money?
To add insult to injury, this is the poster that they’re using for their campaign:
Here’s the address to the full poster:
http://www.police.sudbury.on.ca/11x17eng%20REVISED.pdf
Now, here’s the racial make-up of Sudbury according to the last census in 2001:
93.7%: White
5%: Aboriginal
2%: Visible Minorities (primarily Asian, followed by Blacks)
Ok, so now, tell me why the main kid in this photo is of a visible minority? Actually, why are so many of them non-White? Let’s say that Asians account for 1.5% of Sudbury’s population and Blacks account for 0.5% – are you trying to tell me, through this poster, that 0.5% of Sudbury’s population is the cause for the street gang violence? Are you trying to tell me that hip hop culture is to blame for your gang issues? Bullshit.
Here’s a reality check: city leaders and the police force in Sudbury are completely out of touch with the reality of what scares the shit out of most Sudburians. You think people are scared of guns and gangs when they’re walking home after work in downtown Sudbury? No. You wanna know what scared the shit out of me when I was there? Drunk white guys. Yeah, I know. Most of you would say that it’s the aboriginals hanging out on almost every street corner that are the problem. They never were when I was there. I’d give them a smoke or a quarter and that was that. Before you get all PC on me, let’s be truthful about the large presence of aboriginals in the downtown core of Sudbury and how you WILL get accosted by them on a regular basis. But are they violent? Not from my experiences. It’s the drunk white guys coming out of bars at night or in the early hours of the morning that are the real threat. That’s who I want to be protected from and I’m willing to place a bet that that’s who you keep having to throw in jail night after night. I’m also willing to bet that the source of most assaults, rapes and other violent crimes in Sudbury are caused by white males, not by young black or aboriginal kids wearing hoodies and bandanas who work from an organized street gang.
The problem with city leaders and the police in Sudbury is that they’re too busy watching episodes of COPS and other American big city TV shows that they think that Blacks and hip hop are the source of violence in their own community. I’ve heard enough of that come out of the mouths of grown-ups when I was a kid: “oh dear, it’s the blacks that are the problem!”, “they’re the cause of all of our crime!”, “look at the news, they always have black guys in handcuffs!” I’m serious. This is what I heard when I was a kid and I wanted to tell the grown-ups around me that we weren’t in LA or New York City. I wanted to say: um, we’re in Chelmsford. It’s ok guys, stop panicking! But you’re not supposed to correct older people when you’re a kid. So I kept my mouth shut and got my own education about the word “nigger”. I learned that people used to hang them from trees, and kept them as slaves and told them not to cross the line that said “whites only”. I learned about the origins of hip hop and rap and reggae and that while you sat on your comfy sofa complaining about the black guys in handcuffs on tv, some innocent black kid in Sudbury had rocks thrown at him because of the colour of his skin. And then I had to go to school and listen to the teacher tell me during sex ed class that gays are bad and that we don’t need to worry about them because they’re not “us”. We don’t have “those people” amongst us. I don’t even want to tell you what promotion that particular teacher got later on. Sigh.
And that’s the issue with rural areas. Always trying to be a part of something, always wanting some sort of significance. How can we be important, how can we matter? Maybe if we invent the same struggles as the larger cities, we can feel closer to them! So we distort our realities and we get those distortions funded. In this case, almost half a million dollars towards a campaign that is pretty useless.
The last time I was there, I read an article in the paper saying that the city was trying to find ways to attract business and immigrants to the city. Last year, I saw that they had hung all of the world’s flags on the Paris bridge, I’m guessing as an effort to attract immigrants? Anyone know why they did that? Anyway, it’s not a flag that can save your ass at this point Sudbury – it’s a complete change in mindset and in how your represent yourself to outsiders that needs to happen. Think that poster won you any bonus points on the multiculturalism front?
So here’s my final word: your poster is racist and stupid and in the end, dangerous. You’re letting television and pop culture influence your policy-making choices and in the end, this distortion of reality keeps harming your community because nothing gets done about THE REAL PROBLEMS.
Sadly, I trust you’ll carry on with your stupidity, Sudbury. Meanwhile, the real gangs, the bikers and similar organized groups, will continue to invade your territory and eventually, you’ll have to actually do something about it. Unless of course, their activities (or pretend activities) are more lucrative to you (in business or funding money) than they are a nuisance.
28 Comments
Julie!!!!!
I am on the organizing committee for this informaton session, and the idea behind this info session is PREVENTION! we here is sudbury are attempting to raise awareness about gangs and deglorify the ideology of being in a gang.
I
dont think that our police force watches too much COPS they are just aware about some of the issues that are unfolding here in sudbury. Incase you did not notice gang members hit up rural areas looking for youth especally youth from low income families and youth in group homes to distribute drugs within this city.
As for being scared of drunk white guys, quit going to the bars and leading them on, maybe that is why you are so scared of drunk white guys when you leave at night.
Sure you have an education but you can’t sit in Ottawa and tell me what is happening in Sudbury from your one visit……gangs do exist and the main objective of the information session is to INFORM community members about the gang activity like the Bloods, and MS 13 they do exist and they do come to sudbury to sell drugs becasue the mark up of drugs here are 100%…
I dont know who you think you are that you can bolg and bash sudbury because of your one visit, I think you need to revisit your family and ask them why they would raise you the way they did.
First of all we as community members, front line workers and educators have to understand what exactly a gang is….its not just a group of individuals with guns running around shooting people, they run sophisticated crime rings and recrruit youth to do the dirty work.
The poster is made of mixed cultures and half of them are youth from mixed parents you judgemental freak.
I hate it that you bashed sudbury to the world…..
Ya know what our keynote speaker was in Toronto 12 years ago trying to put a prevention plan in place and the city said NOOOOOOO we will never have MS13 or bloods!!!!!!!!!!!!! today they call him 3 x a week to train police in Toronto….
Again thanks for bashing sudbury to the world….
I love Normand’s comment about how it would be your fault if you got assaulted because you led on the drunk white guys. Julie, shame on you for doing that, you dirty skank. It’s like Normand is psychic.
And your parents raised you bad, too, by the way. I know it’s true because Normand said so.
I also love the way Normand flips it on you and says you’re bashing Sudbury, and you don’t know Sudbury. Because it’s all about making you look like the bad guy here.
Normand, you’re awesome. Keep it up, mon ami, because The Gangs Are Coming!
Hello Norman,
You’re welcome, this time it was actually my pleasure to bash Sudbury. I mean, I like the place, especially from a distance. It’s kind of like Florida. It’s fun to visit but you’d never want to live there, you know? I was actually thinking of buying the domain “ilovebashingsudburytotheworld.com” but it was already taken by some other really bitter judgmental freak. Too bad. (Note: this paragraph employs this thing we call sarcasm. It’s a useful way of saying ‘I really don’t care about your defensive opinion so I’m just going to just play with it’).
You know why Sudbury is so easy to bash, Norman? Because there are a lot of guys like you who think that women get assaulted by drunk white guys because they’re leading them on. There are a lot of guys like you that assume that because a woman is scared of drunk white guys, that she must be leading them on because she’s straight. What’s even saddest about Sudbury is that there are a lot of guys like you that work the front lines (social services or policing) or who are in positions of political power and who think along those lines: women are asking for rape or sexual assault or battery because they lead on the drunk guys. I lived in the downtown core of Sudbury for many years and I have lived through harassment and assaults by simply walking to and from work. But because there are guys like you in charge, women’s groups get their efforts blocked when they want to try to address issues like violence against women in Sudbury. Nothing ever gets done. Instead, groups like you get almost a half a million dollars of funding to push your “hey, we’re bad ass just like the big cities now” attitude to tackle an issue that is so MINOR compared to all of the other problems that Sudbury is facing today.
Your own police chief has been quoted in the media saying that there are no gangs in Sudbury. So, you run a campaign with a poster that says “We are here. What’cha gonna do about it?”, insinuating that gangs are operating in Sudbury and using faces of minority groups as the ‘gang members’.
I don’t care about your opinion on the racial issue of this matter because you clearly don’t get it when I say that the poster is not adequately representing the demographics of Sudbury, where almost 94% of the population is white (and not mixed race). The poster is racist, plain and simple.
By running an aggressive campaign like that, you’re not merely informing people. You’re scaring them and misleading them with an inaccurate poster that yells out “Oh no! Gangs are taking over Sudbury!”. But instead of just being honest with people and saying something like “Gang prevention seminar”, you’re going for shock value. It’s kind of like the session that the police organized years ago to educate parents on the dangers of the Internet where they were saying that the parents should look up their child’s name on Yahoo or MySpace to see what their activities might be… because, you know, little Johnny’s gonna use his real name on the Interwebs.
And that, Norman, is why it’s so easy to make fun of Sudbury. And it’s also why I have a blog. Because I can. Because I can say what I want and because you can say what you want. And by saying what you did, you’ve exposed to the world the thoughts that you have as you work on the front line. Think the women on your staff or the women who use your services will be comfortable around you from now on, after they read what you wrote? You know what else I hope, Norman? I hope a future employer googles your name and finds your comment, too. Heck, I hope your current employer reads it too. Because no agency dealing with the public should hire or keep someone who thinks that women are scared of harassment or abuse or assaults by men because they might have been leading them on.
Yes, that’s why I have a blog. To get guys like you to tell us what you really think so we can keep you off the front line and make the streets safe again.
Julie, your reply has a lot of words in it, and real men like Norman and I don’t like wimmenz who use a lot of words. Except when we are drunk, and you’re leading us on, you vixen.
Besides, you’re missing the point! THE GANGS ARE COMING! How can you ignore that? Right now, gay immigrant minority babies could be holding their glocks sideways, busting caps and selling drugs and stuff in your old home town.
P.S. je te demande pardon, Norman, j’ai mal épelé ton nom dans mon premier commentaire.
Julie!
I also am part of a working group to stop violence against women in this city, I am not a bad guy! I work hard everyday to try and make this city a better place for everyone. But I think the most important thing is for people in this city and people like you!!! to understand what exactly a gang is!!!! Do you understand Julie!!!!! A gang does not have to be a car full of individuals with guns driving around shooting people, a gang can be an established drug operation within this city which has links to the larger gangs in Toronto or Ottawa….
And When our police chief was quoted for saying there are no gangs in sudbury he is right becasue they are not here yet!!!!!!! but, this city is at risk of having gangs set up shop here!!!
We as Front Line Workers want to make this City uncomfortable for gangs to come to!!!! is that soo bad!
Julie running an aggressive campaign is what I believe we have to do!!!! What do you want us to do SUGAR COAT the whole fact that this city may be at risk of having gangs in the future? No!!!!!!! that is not what we are doing.
And as for exposing my thoughts as a front line worker, I am just expressing my opinion about your blog!!!!! like I said I am not a bad guy, I just believe that people like you are so naive to issues within this city such as gangs!!!! and you do not even live here!!!!!! I dont get it!!!!!
You can live your life in your little shelter or continue to stick your head in the sand like alot of other people in this city!!!!
As for working with women I treat women with respect, I understnad how to respect women. My comment was for you, not all women, I am not painting all women with the same brush!!!!! You have to understand when someone such as yourself blogs negatively about all the hard work front line workers are doing in this city it upsets me!
It really bothers me when you try to twist my words!!!! my words are for you and your blog not all women, I dont think that way about all women, I dont know where you got that idea!!! what do you think I go to work with that attitude!!! No!!! like I said I have respect for women and I have a positive relationship with the women I work with, and enjoy working with women!
I wish you would stop trying to make me look like a bad guy, when in reality I am a hard working good guy!!!!
As for bashing sudbury, it upsets me when people like you do this!!! we are trying to make a difference and help our youth!!!!
Your comments are off the wall and you do not even come close to comprehending what the city is dealing with, for that matter you do not even come close to comprehending what exactly front line work is.
I do hope people look at this blog becasue they can see all the negativity that you spill into your blog about this city and the work the we do here.
So I hope that you never come back to this city!!!! because this city and its citizens owe you nothing becasue of what you continue to say about us!!!!!! enjoy your sheltered life with your PC!!!!!!!!
Norman has a case of exclamation-point-itis. I believe there’s an operation to cure that. Unfortunately, it would involve having his head removed from his ass.
Here’s a newsflash for you Norman: The validity of your argument goes down in direct proportion to the number of exclamation points.
And Julie isn’t twisting your words to make you look like a douchebag – you did that all by yourself.
Your name says it all Heartless one!!!!!!!
Julie!!!!!
I’m willing to bet the our lovely Mr.B here is real good friends with David Popescu. However, he sounds alot like a cop. Maybe a cop wannabe. Oh my goodness he’s a rent a cop!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Norman,
You mentioned that you are also part of a group working to stop violence against women in this city. I’m interested in knowing which group? I’m interested in knowing how they would feel if they caught wind of…
(copied and pasted from your own blog entry)
“As for being scared of drunk white guys, quit going to the bars and leading them on, maybe that is why you are so scared of drunk white guys when you leave at night”
Are you going to accuse me of twisting words too? You said this. In plain black and white.
You keep on saying that you are a nice guy. It sounds like you are trying to convince yourself. So sad.
Does your wife know how you feel? She’s such a nice lady and you’re such a … penis.
Sorry about calling you a penis. Name calling is really not nice. It’s just lack of a better word really. Don’t take it personal.
Norman’s rebuttal is awesome!!!!!! Lots of exclamation marks is the hallmark of the critical thinker, and all-round well-educated person!!!!!
I love the way he cleverly extracts his foot from his mouth and inserts it elsewhere by exclaiming that he doesn’t want wimmenz to think they are all man-baiting freaks!!!! Just Julie!!!
He also admits that while there are currently no gangs in sudbury, there is no reason to believe they aren’t coming!!!! Using that logic, Norman could also postulate that anything is possible!!!! Holy crap!!!! The sky is falling!!!!!! OMG!!!! Killer Bees!!!!! Aargh!!!! Zombies are coming! Tithe!!!! Tithe!!!!
Norman!!!!! please post a photo of yourself!!!!! I have a bet going that I will be able to find 6 points of similarity between you and the Geico Caveman, and I could really use the money!!!!!
PS! Look! I am also a critical thinker because I use lots of exclamation marks!!!!!
Norman:
I want to add this in regards to claims of negativity as this is something that comes up very often: people often mistake critiques as negativity because it isn’t compatible with their opinion of what they feel is right. People have a right to express criticism, to write critiques and to be “negative”. To be negative means to be gloomy, to lack optimism and to be unconstructive.
So, by using this definition of “negative”, the majority of opinion pieces on subjects like the current economy, the wars in Afghanistan and the US, the prorogation of Parliament and other modern topics would be on the “oh my gawd, this is too negative!” list. It’s ok for me to write about how the war is ridiculous or about how we’ve really screwed up the economy but to write about the fact that some things about Sudbury are problematic is too negative? Seems like I’ve hit a nerve. And I’m glad that I have. Sometimes that’s what it takes to prompt people to make positive changes.
It’s by pointing out the negative aspects of an issue that we can arrive to positive results. I don’t downplay the role of front-line workers, Norman. I respect them entirely. It’s the people who are out there working the streets, answering the phone calls at 3am, counselling the distressed, handing out clean needles to the addicted and educating parents on things like childcare who deserve our admiration and respect. It’s easy to get a desk job; it’s not easy to tolerate being yelled at by clients or dealing with the emotional repercussions of seeing children suffer or helping women who are fleeing from violence. Plus, front-line workers are too often overworked and underpaid and I’ll be the first to advocate for better recognition, better compensation and more community support for front-line work.
The issue that I have is when the policy-makers and marketing people for those organizations make decisions that end up misrepresenting an entire group of people. So, by choosing a poster that is racist, the entire police force and it’s associated committees appear as racist.
And of course, by issuing comments like the ones you used, you (perhaps without intending to) represented an entire committee who probably don’t agree with your opinions and probably don’t appreciate them at all. There’s free speech and then there’s public responsibility. When you’re a front-line worker, public responsibility trumps your right to free speech.
I’m tempted to wade into what Norman has said, but Julie and other folks have provided a very clear critique of what he’s said that is messed up and needs rethinking. Thanks for that, because replying to that level of oppressive crap is draining.
I want to talk about the poster again. Specifically, I want to address the assumed “equality” of using kids of colour (specifically mixed race and aboriginal kids) as representative of gang members. I am also want to point to the very problemaici way that a hip hop/black aesthetic is being used to represent gangs and therefore to represent violence. For the creator of this poster it was obviously an easy link to make, and even if all the kids had been white, I would still be concerned about the use of blackness as abject/problematic/violent in this poster. This isn’t only about using a population that is less than 2% to represent gang culture, but also the ways that blackness is referenced in the use of clothing, stances etc.
I am also beyond words at the use of children in this ad as well. Are we worried about toddlers becoming gang members? Really? Infants? Seriously? The inclusion of this population seems a bit ridiculous and makes me further question the thinking behind this organized panel.
Finally, I want to know, if gang culture is such a concern for those in Sudbury, why aren’t we talking about the organized gangs that already exist (if they do?) Many folks have mentioned to me that a number of biker gangs (which are all white mostly) have set up shop in Sudbury, but I don’t see any experts, posters and panels on this. Why not?
Oh yeah and Norman, I am sure I will bump into you someday, as I also work on the front lines and know others who do work in the violence against women communities. I think you should be very concerned about your words and think about the consequences of displaying your sexist racism so openly.
In regards to the biker gangs question: while doing research for this article, I read quotes by the police published in the local media in Sudbury saying that the biker gangs like Hell’s Angels and the Outlaws were chased out of Sudbury years ago.
“Police believe gangs may attempt to fill the void left by the Hells Angels motorcycle club, which police cracked down on about three years ago.”
http://thesudburystar.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=2466053
“Inspector Keetch says that Sudbury is at risk. In 2007, there was an issue with the Hell’s Angels, a motorcycle gang, but it was dismantled. Since then, there has been a void in the local drug scene, allowing gangs from bigger cities, like Toronto, to step in.”
http://theshield.cambrianc.on.ca/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=715:sudbury-a-breeding-ground-for-gangs&catid=3:local&Itemid=44
“Greater Sudbury Police has been successful at driving motorcycle gangs out of the city, but Chief Ian Davidson said organized crime is presenting itself in a new way — street gangs. ”
http://www.thesudburystar.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?archive=true&e=1467865
Here’s my best guess in regards to the whole street gang vs biker gangs thing:
a) It’s the truth. Biker gangs are no longer operating in Sudbury and street gangs are the new threat.
b) It’s not true but this was the best strategy to use and the best talking points to train our staff on in order to get funding for a new ‘prevention program’ (and maybe to get a few new Tasers for the boys out of that budget).
I’m hoping for option a) but I’m not being given enough evidence from the police other than “trust me because I said so”. Option b) is complete speculation and total bullshit on my part. Or is it?
You’re right about the use of hip hop/black aesthetic in that poster and that’s what irked me the most. There’s a specific target and it is not including other gangs that would not use the clothing or stances represented in that poster, like white supremacist groups that are as much of a threat to the city as any other ethno-centric gangs out there.
You know, Julie, I think you failed to point out the positive aspects of this poster. The fashion design, for instance, is phenomenal! My friend is having a baby soon, and I think she would love one of those toddler sized gansta’ hoodies for her little boy. So freakin’ cute! I’m hoping Norman can pass along the name of the designer so that we can all jump on this fashion band wagon.
On a slightly more serious note: Norman says his comment about you leading on men in bars was intended for “you, not for all women.” But he doesn’t know you or anything about you (otherwise he would know that you’re not in the habit of flirting with men), and yet still chose to make that statement based on no evidence whatsover. His statements are based in stereotypes, cliches, untruths. So if for you, why not for all women? That is a dangerous way of thinking, and a major reason why sexual harrassment cases are not always taken seriously.
Thanks for starting – and eloquently continuing – this discussion, Julie.
And Richard, I don’t know you, but your sense of humour rocks my world.
Jess, thanks for commenting on that comment about “you, not for all women” and thanks for sharing this article. You’ve rightfully pointed out that this kind of statement is problematic because it pretends to isolate someone when it doesn’t – it still makes an assumption and in the end, generalizes all women.
Julie,
fist of all i read your blog and first intented to show you my support. Because i as well did not agree with the poster. but i soon changed my mind after reading the rest of the blog and some of your comments.
I live in Sudbury and it IS true that the chief or police said that gangs are no longer in sudbury. And I do unterstand your frustration due to the individuals on the poster. But honestly don’t you think if they would’ve been all white it would be even more racist??? The individuals on the poster are visible minorities AND WHITE!!! Get real, seriously you are complaining for absolutely nothing.Sudbury and All of canada is multicultural and that is why the kids on the poster are not all white.
Also, Drunk white guys were a threat to you when you came visit sudbury? were you waiting outside of a bar at 3 in morning to see who would come out? Seriously this is a joke. i’m not saying blacks or aboriginals are a threat either but come on! i have lived here for fifteen years and been all over sudbury. I have seen whites blacks hispanics and aboriginals get arrested. But the way you talked about ”drunk white guys” was almost as if they were always walking around in broad day light beeing a threat to the community. If so that’s total horseshit! I’m sure if you walk downtown at 3 in the morning in Sudbury OR Ottawa or any other city in Canda you will find drunk white guys for sure.
I also want to say that most of your statements are your personnal theory and you assume alot.
Just sayin,
Dee
PS: I wrote this in a hurry so please don’t bash my writing skills, that’s not why i wrote this comment.
No, if they had been all white, it would have been more accurate to Sudbury’s demographics. But, yes, it would still have been promoting the message that hip hop culture equals street gangs. There are varying degrees of multiculturalism throughout Canada so if a marketing campaign is to be used in one community only, it should reflect the population of that community.
Sigh, not during a visit – drunk white guys were a threat when I lived there. I worked very early in the morning, lived downtown and walked to work every day. Try taking a walk downtown at 5am every day and you’d be surprised how many drunk guys are just wandering around.
Um, yeah, my statements are personal and some of them are complete horseshit. Some employ this method called “sarcasm”. Some make overly huge generalizations for no other reason than to be snarky. I’m totally aware of that – it’s my blog and my opinion. I never claimed that my articles would be journalism.
Oh and dude, your writing really sucks. I mean, it’s really really bad. It’s so bad that my SPAM filter spat it out and said “hey, even I don’t want this”.
Next time, breathe dude. Take your time. Grab a croissant and a cup of coffee, open the curtains, let some light in in your basement and keep a book on grammar, style and punctuation nearby. Actually, just read a book on grammar, style and punctuation ok? And breathe. Really, just breathe. There’s no need to hurry. I like it when people spend their time here. Especially people who can’t write. Because it gives me so much joy to bash them!
ok yea your right, it’s your opinion and i totally respect that im just stating mine.
So, you said the kids beeing all white would be more acurate for Sudbury’s demographics. Do you actually have a reference i could check out? i’m not bitching i’m just curious. Oh and by sudbury i mean Greater Sudbury because alot of people go to sudbury for leisure, groceries ect.
And i absolutly don’t care about my writing lol. But it’s kinda amusing watching people complain all over the net of spelling and punctatuion errors. i just try to get my through. As long as my intented audience understands.
Dee, you can find the information about Sudbury’s demographics by running a quick search in Google. The Canadian government publicly posts the census information and the provincial government also lists Sudbury as being the least multi-ethnic metropolitan area in Ontario. You’ll also find a document by Sudbury’s Social Planning council outlining demographic information for the city where it states that only 2% of Sudburians are from visible minorities.
Julie.
First of all I would like to apologize not only to you but all women that I have offended with my comments. I completely understand that my statements were in-fact sexist. I am currently dealing with the ramifications of my comments, and I realize the impact my comments had on all women. Currently I am seeking guidance by the appropriate professionals to help me address my way of thinking, I made the comments because I was so frustrated with your post, and it really got under my skin. However, I addressed the issue inappropriately and I realize that. Most importantly I would like everyone to understand that my comments do not necessarily reflect all front line workers or committee members. It is difficult for me to read posts poking fun at the work we are doing here in Sudbury, I understand now that it is criticism and I have to learn not to take it personally.
Julie I would also like to thank you for teaching me the most valuable lesson I have learned to date, “public accountability trumps freedom of speech” I understand the values of front line work, and now realize how important it is for me to be accountable to the community in which I work.
I understand that I have made women everywhere angry with my comments, and I am taking this opportunity to apologize for my comments.
I hope you and women everywhere can accept my apologies and know that I am taking the appropriate actions to address my way of thinking.
Thanks
Hi Norman,
Apology accepted. It’s not easy to apologize, whether it’s genuine or it’s something you had to do to keep your job, I don’t care. What’s done is done. I’m glad that you’re seeking guidance and I hope that you find new understanding along the way. We all make mistakes and in a lot of cases, we should all be allowed a chance to redeem ourselves. When we’re so deeply passionate about something, it can be really easy to want to defend our passion without thinking of the consequences of our words or actions. You’ll know that you’ll have received the right guidance when you feel that you’ve learned new skills that will allow you to remain passionate without getting personal. That doesn’t mean that you have to disregard some of your core values – sometimes, it does get personal. It’s knowing what values should be yours and be kept private when you have the professional mask on, and which values you won’t let any organization keep you quiet about. I will always support freedom of speech. As Voltaire said, “I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.” But, as you know, there are certains things that we just can’t say when we’re in positions that make us responsible and accountable to everyone. And it’s not just about saying it, it’s about what it means to think that way and how even as a private individual, it will prevent you from fully understanding other people around you. In the end, it’s about respect – respect for all women and respect for yourself. See it as a new beginning, a huge opportunity to start over and to grow.
In the spirit of second chances, I’d like to make you an offer. I’m really disappointed that the anti-gang campaign doesn’t even include online information for kids to read if they want to know how to protect themselves from being caught up in gangs. Talk to the people you have to talk to (if you need permission) and if you’re interested, I’d like you to personally write up a little guide for youth, specifically for kids in Sudbury. I’d like you to tell them the following:
- what they should look out for (how do they know the adults or the other kids are in a gang or are trying to recruit them?)
- who they can talk to about it (if they’re being pressured to join a gang)
- what other activities are available to them (if they’re bored, safe places to do things – even better if the activity is free)
- how they can get out of a gang without endangering themselves, their friends or their family
I’d like to publish that under your name at http://scarygangstababies.com This will help your online reputation, and in the end, it will help out the people that we really want to help out: the kids in Sudbury and everywhere else in Ontario. I’ll also post it on the associated facebook group and I’ll try to find other youth groups on Facebook that might benefit from this info.
I would also advise you to share that website with your non-profit colleagues because I’ll be publishing a lot of articles there that could help them with advocacy and online advertising. I think there’s a major, major disconnect between non-profits as well as the police when it comes to the online world and by not publishing any info about street gangs online, they’re missing their target: that’s where the kids are! So, what do you think? Want to do something really useful and write an article for my site?
I can certainly do that Julie. However, we are currently working on putting all the information together and when I have all the participant information gathered I will personally write up an article for the website. This article will take me a little time to put together, and I will be sure to share it with you as well as the youth online.
I agree that there is a major disconnect between non-profits and police services when it comes to the online world, I think that is a great idea. I will definitely inform committee members about the importance of targeting youth online. Julie you are correct when you stated that we are missing a large part of our target group by not publishing anything online for youth to access. In future projects I will be sure to keep in mind the importance of targeting youth online.
Julie I appreciate the opportunity for me to redeem myself, as I am very passionate about the work that I do here is Sudbury, and if not for you and your website I may have never started this personal journey. I would also like you to know that my apology was in-fact genuine, and I believe that the apology was necessary for me to acknowledge what it takes to be accountable to the community in which I work.
Take Care
Norm
That’s awesome Norm. When you’re done writing it up, just send it to me via email (you can contact me through the Contact tab on this website, either through the form or using the email address posted there). No rush, just thought I’d give you the opportunity to write something helpful that would get exposure online. Let me know if your organization and other committees in Sudbury feel that they need more info about how to use online media, websites, blogs and social networking for advocacy. If there’s enough of a need, I would be willing to give a talk on that subject, for free, the next time I’m in town. All the best with your journey!
This may be a little late considering the date that you blogged about gangs in Sudbury the first time but I have to say that I agree 100% with you, Julie, about the errors in the ways of the authorities, etc.
As for Normand, seek all the help you need mister because honestly, you’re beyond help!
I am a single parent of 2 teenagers and have had the misfortune of being low-income as well as falling into situations where DRUNK WHITE GUYS have caused me AND my daughters significant trouble!
One case was when a neighbour assaulted me, in front of my children when intoxicated – IN MY FRONT YARD – and do you want to know what the wonderful law “enforcement” did for me? They spoke with the bastard on the phone and he assured them that he wanted nothing to do with myself or my daughters – ONLY TO TURN AROUND AND REPEAT HIS ACTIONS 2 WEEKS LATER!
There is very little faith to be had where law is concerned. There is none – and when a single mother has to contact officials in Toronto – OIPRD – in order to have any investigation conducted properly, there are serious issues with the “law” in our city.
Keep in mind that it took police A WEEK AND A HALF before even speaking the the WHITE DRUNK MAN – but maybe they believed that I’d lead him on – considering I am single, have large breasts and probably was wearing hooker boots and a short skirt at the times of these incidences… Right, I’d forgotten that.
Each and every time I have contacted police – whether it was when my ex-husband was raping me or smashing my face through drywall, it ALWAYS, always took the police more than 6 hours before they would show up to “help.”
You sir, are a disgrace to all men but then – demographics would probably show that you are caucasian and yes, I’ll keep in mind that you are seeking help for your sexist attitude.
Julie, keep the blogging happening! More people need to be enlightened to the reality of what Sudbury REALLY is! – And I fully agree with your comments regarding the poster as well, that is laughable.
Hello Nancy,
Thanks so much for your comment and no, it’s never too late to share your thoughts!
I’m so sorry to hear that you’ve had a rough time with law enforcement, especially considering what has happened to you. Their actions and response times are inexcusable in situations like that! I’ve also had similar experiences when it came to response by the police in Sudbury when it came to domestic abuse, alleged rape and sexual harassment. I’ve had to call the police several times to protect female neighbours and it always took them hours to respond. When someone is yelling rape, you’d think it would be a high priority to intervene! In one case, a very young girl (I believe she was 16 and the boyfriend was in his mid-twenties) was being threatened by her boyfriend. He loudly yelled that he would blow up the building and he smashed a part of the main door to the building. My roommate and I called the police. The boyfriend disappeared, and the police asked us to keep the young girl in our apartment and that if he returned, we should call the police and they would come and pick him up. Sure enough, he returned. We called the police. They said that there was nothing they could do and that we should let her go back to him. Eventually, they were evicted. I later found out that I could have pressed charges even though the police who responded to the incident said that only the young girl was allowed to press charges.
The problem with Sudbury is that there are a LOT of bad cops. It’s not a generalization, this is something that a lot of us know from experience. The shame in all of it is that there are a few really good ones who can’t do anything about the corruption or else they’ll break the “code”. I have met a few of these good cops and they’re exasperated – they do what they can because they love the profession but even they haven’t been shy to admit that there’s a big problem in policing in Sudbury and particularly when it comes to crimes against women. If I was still in Sudbury, I’d be very comfortable in starting a citizen’s group because it’s time for action and it’s time for reform. And that won’t happen unless the people of Sudbury raises their voices and their fists up in the air and say ‘Hey, we won’t tolerate this anymore.’
And that’s the point: nothing will change if people say nothing about it. Pass on my article, get your friends, colleagues, family members to leave comments. Share your experiences here and join my Facebook group (http://www.facebook.com/?ref=logo#!/group.php?gid=10150118645405548&ref=ts). And if you want to voice your concerns about policing in general, please start a new group and let me know about it! If we can’t start something locally then we have to do it in the virtual world.
This is the best time in the world to be active about what you care about thanks to technology and to the social networks that exist now to make all of this much easier!
My comment is on gangs in sudbury… Frorm my expierience if u get a group of kids that share the sme struggle of oppresion, having them all know the heart of a poor suuroundings DRUGZ,SEXUAL EXPLOITAION,AND VIOLENCE,ALSO CASH DEPRIVATION, one now has the enviroment for a gang, those youth are going to stand together in thier difficulty and try to in unison do summthing about it wether it be sell dope,robb innocent members of society they will party and drink together to forget thier pain and they will commit crime in as one to bring themselves out of the bondage they feel trapped in…they will be enclined to represent thier cause againtst all odds were this group may have started out as just kids or just youth they end up by legal definition a gang so wher poverty exisists gangs exsist…so this is why i think gangs exsists in sudbury…or at least the enviroment wich is wher stopping them in thier tracks comes in to play…-Crash landry
Hi there,
Thanks for your comment. I completely agree with you – where poverty exists, so does crime. Same thing with drug use, violence, sexual exploitation, etc. That’s why I’m appalled that this funding money has only been used for ‘gang information sessions’ and not to address the issues that could breed gangs and gang behaviour. The youth in Sudbury need places to go to – healthy places! Things like support services, extracurricular activities, arts programs, etc… even little things like legal graffiti walls, maybe even community gardening, community policing services… all of that can help out. It makes complete sense for these kids to be attracted to gangs or to form their own gangs in order to cope with their day to day lives. It’s a hell of a lot easier to sell drugs and steal and join a “community of ‘brothers and sisters’” than it is to cope with being poor or being abused.. especially when you’re young and vulnerable. It makes me sad that all of this money for this anti-gang initiative hasn’t been used to do something about the problem.
It’s one thing to educate teachers and parents and social service workers but it’s not enough. Unfortunately, there’s not much that people like me can do about it; I’m just hoping that eventually, the community will get together and say “we’ve had enough – let’s do something proactive for a change” instead of waiting for poverty to rise, crime to get worse and sexual assaults to continue to go unreported. It’s a community thing and everyone has to get involved because it’s everyone’s business.
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[...] I wrote an article a few days ago about an anti-gang campaign taking place in Sudbury. Within 24 hours, my site traffic quadrupled and I received a great deal of feedback. But it wasn’t my article that hit a nerve, it was the comments left by Norman Beauvais, who worked on the organizing committee for this campaign. These comments were alarming coming from someone who not only worked on a committee affiliated with the police but also sat on a committee to prevent violence against women. Read them here: http://julielaurin.com/?p=820 [...]
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